Home › Forums › 02. Preamble › 1 . INTRODUCIENDO LA DEMOCRACIA DIRECTA.
Tagged: democracia directa
- This topic has 9 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 2 months ago by
Leo Klinkers.
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13 October 2021 at 02:20 #2129
Amparo Plaza muñozParticipant.Una Constitucion Federal para los Estados Unidos de Europa en el siglo XXI, deberia estar en relacion a los tiempos actuales. En mi opinion deberia introducirse en el Preambulo esta enmienda. El sistema Politico actual de representacion esta agotado y por ello los ciudadanos se distancian cada vez mas de las Instituciones Politicas. Europa necesita un punto de inflexión que los ciudadanos vuelvan a la PARTICIPACION POLITICA Y A LA DEMOCRACIA DIRECTA, seria un instrumento adecuado para ello.
13 October 2021 at 11:20 #2135Leo KlinkersParticipantDear Amparo, our federal constitution has articles introducing forms of direct democracy. Moreover, the fact that we are submitting the constitution for ratification by the people of Europe represents the most extreme form of direct democracy.
Leo Klinkers13 October 2021 at 20:21 #2140Amparo Plaza muñozParticipantEstimado Leo, Todos los Estados que tienen democracia con Sistema Politico Representativo proceden a ratificar una Constitucion en Referendum. Pero un Referendum no es Democracia Directa sino que es una herramienta basica en el sistema politico de Democracia Directa.
Amparo Plaza14 October 2021 at 10:35 #2141Herbert TombeurParticipantHello Amparo & Leo, I do share Amparo’s concern. To have direct democracy more than referenda is needed. May I refer to the working of the Swiss (Con-)Federation (a Federation since 1848), from town governments to the federal government? There is a lot of publications about it. I refer to start the study of its federal constitution (1999) to European Federalist Paper no. 20. A coincidence is that I started to make the analysis of the democratic lock down in Europe, since the French Revolution in 1789-94.
15 October 2021 at 15:11 #2145Leo KlinkersParticipantAs I said before: the fact that Citizens of Europe ratify the Constitution is the most fundamental form of direct democracy. Article V of the constitution deals with referenda. I agree with Amparo and Herbert that referenda are a weak indication of direct democracy – and maybe we should stop thinking at all that referenda (however weak) are a form of direct democracy. Therefore I am exited to know what amendments Amparo and Herbert will produce to improve Article V in this respect. In our timetable Article V will be dealt with in the period 15 January-5 February. Let’s see what you can, gentlemen: deliver concrete amendments, based on a convincing explanation.
15 October 2021 at 17:15 #2151Giuseppe MartinicoParticipantEn el constitucionalismo contemporáneo, los instrumentos de la democracia directa están siempre equilibrados por elementos de la democracia representativa. El parlamentarismo es la esencia de la democracia, como decía Kelsen. De hecho, las constituciones suelen establecer una separación de funciones entre lo que se puede hacer por referéndum y lo que deben hacer las instituciones representativas. De lo contrario, se corre el riesgo de una deriva populista. Weber también lo argumentó. Los instrumentos de la democracia directa pueden ser ciertamente reforzados, pero las instituciones representativas deben ser preservadas. Se trata de encontrar una buena combinación.
15 October 2021 at 17:53 #2163Ramon MaynouParticipantLas votaciones deberían tener el umbral del 51% del censo electoral de cada estado (y no el 51% de los que han emitido el voto). Y si un estado no llega a este 51% de los censados, se debería entender que no desean formar parte de la nueva Federación Europa
15 October 2021 at 19:40 #2165Herbert TombeurParticipantFor consideration no. III in the Preamble, I propose this amendement: “Whereas, finally, without prejudice to our right to adjust the composition of the federal body in elections, we have the inalienable right to depose the federation’s authorities if, in our view, they violate the Constitutional Stipulations concerning the powers between the Federation and the Member States, those of their respective entities included, or the powers between the federal authorities themselves, Adopt the following articles …”. I rest my case.
15 October 2021 at 20:01 #2168Giuseppe MartinicoParticipantI suggest we should revise the original wording by looking at the German and Portuguese models: “All the citizens shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order if no other remedy is available”, in this way the use of resistance will be judged according to the proportionality principles since it should be the extrema ratio to avoid instrumental use of this provision
16 October 2021 at 11:58 #2171Leo KlinkersParticipantAs mentioned in Note 4 of the document containing the amended Preamble (see Progress Report 5 of Saturday 16 October), Members who have already tabled amendments can still propose slight modifications during this weekend. The last proposal, from Giuseppe, I will include under Point III of the Preamble with the text: “All the Citizens shall have the right to resist any person, organisation, institute or authority seeking to abolish this constitutional order if no other remedy is available.”
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